[Note that this is a continuation of Part 1 of this article.]
One of the chief differences that has been pointed out to me about the way I was taught to do sanseiru and most other dojo is that in the second shiko dachi a jodan uke / age uke is used instead of the sokumen awase uke discussed previously.
In this variation (as demonstrated by Teruo Chinen and perhaps the most common and regarded as the standard) the feet in the shiko are angled 90 degrees but the body is turned 45 degrees. The kata performer then effects a jodan/age uke (not an inside sokumen awase uke as I had always assumed - it looks like it could be one).
The problem I have with this is set out below:
The bunkai doesn't seem to me to have the feet at 90 degrees, and for good reason: the angle of your forearm would simply be insufficient to create a deflection. See this video for an example:
You'll note at at about point 1.33 that the angle of the defender's feet is about 45 degrees and the body is then further turned so that it actually faces the attacker. This makes the block effective. If the angle were less, the deflection would have an insufficient "angle of attack": potentially the block would slope towards you and not away.
On the other hand, you will also notice that the bunkai -
(a) is very little like the kata at this point and is at odds with the fundamental tenshin/taisabaki in the kata move (which is to go in towards your opponent at 90 degrees); and
(b) puts you in a very precarious position (take a look at point 1.33 and see how the defender is flying straight into the attacker's fist - yikes!).
[I should point out that this is not intended as a criticism of the martial artists' ability in this video. As a rule, I only post videos of martial artists who I consider to be good. Disagreeing with a technical point is different from disregarding their ability or knowledge generally. In this case I think the applications shown in the video are of a very high standard.]
By contrast, take a look at this picture of a person who I presume is Chojun Miyagi performing (what I think) is a much more appropriate bunkai of the move (courtesy of http://www.gojuryu.net/):
Miyagi might have just moved in to do a hiji ate with his right hand after blocking the attacker's punch with his left using a gykau te / haishu osae uke (far more consistent with the move in the kata than a groin grab, IMHO). On the other hand if he needed to he might use the right "hiji ate" as an outside sokumen awase uke then apply the hiji ate. In any event, he is shielded from further attack on his right side by his right arm which, if a left punch is thrown by the attacker, can be deflected using the kata's next move - a hike/kake uke together with the footsweep, double punch etc.
I can see now why some schools turn to face the opponent head-on when they do the jodan/age uke. I think it is an attempt to make workable a bunkai that is, at best, an oyo. See for example the version below at point 1.27:
I have been asked whether any of our goju is Chinese influenced - in this regard I think my version of this move in the kata probably is (I am slowly starting to realise just how much CMA have influenced my teacher's art and now mine - more on this later).
To my mind the hiji ate / sokumen awase uke application of this move is inherent in the kata at this point regardless of my influences...
Thanks - I'm hard to keep quiet, so expect much more!
As to the age/jodan uke - spoken like a true taiji man! I was just having this discussion with a Yang stylist: the goju basic age/jodan uke involves raising the elbow where in some taiji styles it does not.
Curiously in Chen Pan-Ling taiji we do some xingyiquan-like moves that involve raising the elbow. Even the "fair lady works at shuttles" involves raising the elbow.
I have my own theory as to why and I'll do a separate blog about it. Your input should be interesting!
The gentleman doing the techinque in the first picture of this blog is none other than Teuro Chinen - one of the greats of goju-ryu karate.
As I said in the blog, I don't think this particular technique was ever meant to be a jodan uke (I prefer "age uke" - rising block), but rather a sokumen awase uke (which would require lifting the elbow).
As further support for my theory I note that none of the goju kata except the gekisai kata contains an age uke with the raised elbow. IMHO this is because the gekisai kata were basic kata, introduced to teach children. The basic goju age uke is very much a beginner's move and features the rising elbow. The higher kata - eg. seisan - never use this basic technique, but keep the elbow down. Again, I hope to cover this interesting issue in another post (perhaps featuring Hong Yi Xiang's Tang Shou Dao - where they did age ukes very similar to those at the start of seisan kata).
Thanks for posting these Goju techniques! I love to discuss about Goju Karate-Do techniques. I still have the Karate spirit inside of me eventhough I stopped Goju training for thirty some years.
Knowing when to apply Jodan Uke is important. The practitioner should only apply Jodan Uke when the opponent is fully-committed to a strike! To counter non-committing strikes such as multiple jabs, Jodan Uke should not be used. When the opponent is fully-committed to a strike, his opposite hand is almost useless or weak. The function of a Jodan Uke is not only to block but to also bounce the opponent off-balanced. Once the forearm contacts the opponent's arm, the practitioner who applied a Jodan Uke can utilize the bouncing to generate a powerful close-range mid-section strike with the other hand that can stop a groin grabbing hand and/or even a kick. But, Jodan Uke must be applied at a close enough range.
I do not want to sound arrogant, but the first picture in this blog depicts an incorrect Jodan Uke that the elbow was raised too high that shut off the energy of the forearm and left the right side empty!
I'm familiar with the Shaolin techniques to which you refer and agree.
However it's the non-jodan uke side I'm worried about in the above example (ie. the groin grabbing hand). On that side you've got no guard AND you're flying into your opponent's left fist.
Sensiru(the Thirty-Six Hands) is closely related to Southern Shaolin styles such as Hung Gar. At the end of the form, the double thrusting hands is called Double Dragon Out From The Ocean in the Hung Gar system. Sensiru was my favorite form when I did my Goju Ryu training 37 years ago.
Jodan Uke, if being applied correctly, can be used on any stance to block mid-section and/or head strikes. Most people erroneously lift the elbow and forearm as Jodan Uke without the correct release of energy. Jadan Uke can be used repeatedly because it always returns to the original starting position instead of being lifted to block only once.
Nice blog, IMVHO although it has taken on an Okinawan Flavor, it most definately retains Much of it's classical CMA origins throughout. Being a bit of a history buff myself I go on and on about this sort of thing with a friend living in Pinshan, Guandong about Southern Mantis , it's relation to Crane, Wing chun (also derived from Crane) and other southern systems and the karate I learned years ago. Rest assured your correct it's like Ragu spaghetti sauce....it's all in there From the beginning of your sanseiryu to the double fuk sau at the end!
From the beginning of your sanseiryu to the double fuk sau at the end!
